Should I Repair Charred Wood In Attic
Thread: This house was on burn!
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This house was on fire!
This is the get-go time I have ever seen a firm that had burned. The buyer even so wants to buy the business firm and not sure all what he needs to know other than what nosotros tin can encounter. It appears to exist an old fire as the roof deck would be plywood or OSB if this was less than 20 years or and then I would retrieve. They left the burned rafters in identify and installed new material next to the burned equally you can run into. The insulation and ventilation is inadequate. I am not sure of the extent of the fire and how much water and fume damage there was. Any thoughts on what my client needs to know due to this burn harm.
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Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Home Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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Some of that charring looks fairly deep in the rafters. I'm surprised they left so much of that framing in identify. If the framing is stable, it should at the very least be sealed to assistance keep the burnt wood smell from leaching off in the heat that builds upwardly in attics.
Did you probe whatsoever of the rafters or roof deck boards to see how deep the fire impairment goes?
"It takes a big man to cry. It takes an fifty-fifty bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey
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Thanks Nick, yes I did probe several rafters and roof deck and it is not deep and still solid. Practiced ideas!
Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Dwelling Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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Fire impairment can be all over the domicile and you might never see or know it. Depending on the corporeality of heat and location you tin have impairment to the thermal window seals; electrical wiring(recall melted insulation); Not to mention the reduction of the wood flashpoint from it being heated (retrieve charcoal briquets!), this is called pyrosis (sp).
Tell them they demand to get their insurance to pull a CLUE written report before the purchase it.
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inquire city inhabitant permit after fire
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They should consider the repercussions of trying to sell that place someday.
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Really great information all yous guys. Thanks I appreciate information technology, I will advise him tomorrow on the CLUE report from the insurance company and call for permit information, when the fire occured and talk to him about the resale issue. I think he wants to check out all his options before he walks.
Thanks again.
Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Habitation Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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what did the disclosure report say--did the seller amanuensis mention fire or boom did you just find it--that should have been disclosed--clue study tin simply exist pulled past seller agent every bit far as i know
cvf
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Re: This house was on fire!
Heck, that's a good i. I alive in Florida. If your customer wants a seasonal place, I have some great swamp land I could sell them. Lol
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Nick is right. The burned wood should be sealed to lock out the olfactory property. I had a garage fire back in 1997 that charred some of the rafters over my adjacent living room and the remediation contractor sealed all of the forest in the attic to lock out the smell. Even wood that is not charred will have been infiltrated with smoke.
As far as resale goes, I remember a lot of people would be turned off to see such extensive charring.
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I've inspected four or 5 houses that take had past fires but none were as bad equally this one seems to exist. I would plainly take lots of pictures, explain information technology to them and besides mention the resale thing which I ever practise when there is major stuff the client seems to be OK with. I would also put "unable to determine the condition of underlying or hidden materials" in the report at the stop of your explanation of the trouble.
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I remember comments so far are excellent. It will at least be interesting if a history of ownership at time of fire and since, might be discovered. I bet it might take sold successfully more than once, and this buyer'due south attitude is not unusual. Other factors weigh more.
The heir-apparent might find comfort in my story of a very like burn down survivor:
If there is a contractor like me in your city, the cranium tin can be restored to an asset. I don't think covering things up adds value. The gable end wall looks worst, where involved roof sheathing was totally replaced, and there might exist excuse to wearing apparel that wall cosmetically in calculation a window or other feature for meliorate attic ventilation. Roof vents seem absent, and the buyer might follow my druthers for my example: louver-protected gable windows generally conveying ambient air through the attic in warmer weather condition. Add a solar-powered fan for good air menstruation in top heat, and static rise too, at night.
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Back in the day (in Dallas), I repaired several burnouts. The city guidelines were straight frontward. If there was any alligator scale, that wood had to be removed and replaced. Fifty-fifty shallow char tin make an alligator scale. Whatsoever melted wire insulation, fifty-fifty miniscule cook; that wire had to be replaced. All affected insulation had to be removed and replaced. Scorched areas had to be sealed with stain killer primer (Kilz for usa). Nosotros always sealed all drywall surfaces as well. Smoke goes everywhere.
That house screams "Run Abroad!" (Non that y'all should say that) When you lot encounter fire damage that is unresolved and improperly repaired, you definitely accept to wonder about what y'all tin can't see and communicate that business to your client. The CLUE report is a dandy idea. The buyer'due south insurance amanuensis can hands pull that. Also, the metropolis should have an incident study unless the fire was many years ago. Frequently very old records are gone. Still, imo, that isn't your job. Only propose the heir-apparent and their amanuensis to check those things.
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What's really odd is how deep the charring looks on the sides of the rafters only the undersides on many were not even touched.
Like John said earlier, I volition often tell my clients they might be fine accepting a condition and living with information technology. But when they go to sell the house down the road, they demand to hope that hereafter buyers will be OK with it as well. If the buyers are not, price of repairs/replacement will be on you lot as the possessor. This always gets them thinking.
"It takes a large man to cry. It takes an even bigger homo to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey
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re:""What's really odd is how deep the charring looks on the sides of the rafters but the undersides on many were not even touched. "
I call up what we are seeing there is a charred rafter with a doubled new rafter on the other side. You meet the lesser of the new forest, and it looks like the bottom of the charred ane. Piece of cake to do because the charred rafter does not have nice sharp edges anymore.
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Originally Posted by gary carroll
re:""What'south really odd is how deep the charring looks on the sides of the rafters but the undersides on many were non even touched. "
I think what nosotros are seeing there is a charred rafter with a doubled new rafter on the other side. Y'all meet the bottom of the new wood, and it looks like the bottom of the charred 1. Easy to do because the charred rafter does not have nice sharp edges anymore.
You're right. I breezed right past where Dan mentioned in his original post that new rafters had been installed next to the burned rafters."It takes a big man to weep. Information technology takes an even bigger human to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey
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Dan,
I've seen a lot of firm that had fires and were repaired or covered over.
This is what I tell my clients and include in my reports:
1. Structures that have had fires crave notification and approval by town officials for re occupancy.
2. Fires normally warrant replacement of most all electrical co-operative wiring and outlets.
3. Woods damaged past fire requires repair or replacement, especially structurally members.
iii. Charred woods will give off an odor for years, and typically requires sealing.
4. Fire suppressant usually involve water which consequence in significant water damage to interiors, finishes, etc and require major repairs.Recommendation :
1. Check with the local town officials and Fire department for any records, permits and approvals.
two. Inquire owner about the history of the fire, when, where and repairs made.
3. If unknown or no records available, Recommend further investigating by a licensed "fire restoration or contractor" or simliar - now and prior to purchase.
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All you guys are very helpful to me and I appreciate information technology. A structural engineer was recommended before closing and the clue report will exist done by his insurance company, not fifty-fifty sure if they will insure this firm. I will allow you know what he does as I know you might be courious of the finding. Its always peachy to go feedback on what to do or say. Cheers
Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Home Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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I am wondering what service y'all can be. I believe all components need inspection and reports from licensed professionals, ( structural / engineer in this case, electrical, mechanical, plumbing, outside, interior & roofing ). At a minimum all systems should exist deferred to licensed pros.
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Might want to pull that moving-picture show downward Dan. I was able to look upwards the listing on line using the house number and your area. The firm by the way looks very clean and bright within in the listings every bit opposed to the black charred attic pics.
"It takes a big homo to cry. Information technology takes an fifty-fifty bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey
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WOW! It'south almost similar we looked at the same house. I was in i last Friday that looked like your pictures. The home I looked at was built in the 40'southward and the couple living there had been there for 43 years. The burn was before their time and they weren't sure how much damage there was. All the charred wood had "new" forest framed next to it and everything seemed to be holding. Before I even made it to the attic, I noticed that the kitchen had been updated (around 1970).
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Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Home Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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Update!!!
The structural engineer said that as long as the burned charred part (alligatoring) is no more than ane/4" deep then the structure is acceptable and is OK. If information technology is more than than one/4" deep then the forest needs to be replaced or new wood installed forth side of the existing fire damaged forest. He said the integrity of the rafters and roof deck, gable ends that were not replaced were all less than i/4" deep and is OK, wrote a alphabetic character and signed off on it.Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Home Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
- Hey, if the PE signed off on information technology so it is their problem at present!
Update!!!
The structural engineer said that equally long as the burned charred part (alligatoring) is no more than than 1/4" deep then the structure is acceptable and is OK. If information technology is more than 1/4" deep then the wood needs to be replaced or new wood installed along side of the existing fire damaged wood. He said the integrity of the rafters and roof deck, gable ends that were non replaced were all less than one/4" deep and is OK, wrote a letter and signed off on it.
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Thoughts. Even if the structural engineer says "it'southward safe to proceed", I'm thinking an insurance company would never insure this abode. Also, all systems demand to be evaluated by certified or licensed professionals. Lastly, it's possible an insurance claim was paid out on this incident, but the homeowner just cashed the check...??
- And Folks, that's it..............well-nigh.
Update!!!
The structural engineer said that as long as the burned charred part (alligatoring) is no more than i/4" deep then the construction is acceptable and is OK. If information technology is more than than 1/4" deep so the wood needs to exist replaced or new wood installed forth side of the existing burn down damaged forest. He said the integrity of the rafters and roof deck, gable ends that were not replaced were all less than one/4" deep and is OK, wrote a letter and signed off on it.In the futurity, I'd still write it up. Sheesh, 1/4" of char on both sides of a 1 1/2" thick board makes information technology a 1" board. Well, shucks, if one" is plenty, so nosotros can save a pile of money building homes.
Be sure to laissez passer this on. 1X3 ane/two is now plenty good for framing. Yee haw!
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Cheers for all your thoughts, just thought you all might want to know what the PE said. This was a 25-xxx year old fire, we call back, the house has new copper supply with 1" at the meter, newer water heater, i year quondam HVAC, newer 100 amp service, about of the systems were updated. firm has sold a few times and the remediation company is unknown. As far as the insurance, it is up to the buyer to talk to his agent nigh that. I informed him of the possible resale bug in the futurity only he is OK with that. I recollect I wrote upward everything I could think of and the PE signed off on it and the buyer is satisfied so I have done all I tin can exercise. SOLD! I am just happy the PE signed off on the structure even subsequently my comments. You guys have alot of great thoughts amd wisdom!
Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Home Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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I hold. You did your job, made your concerns known, recommended appropriate experts, and that is all any of us tin can exercise.
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Hither is a good article on structural members damaged past fire
http://world wide web.fpl.fs.fed.united states of america/documnts/pd...05_ross005.pdf
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Thank you Don, good data.
Dan Hagman ACI
ProSite Habitation Inspections
Des Moines, Iowa
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]I have that beat, my living room floor is now in the basement suite. we had a burn nov 3, 2022. Still don't know the reason for the burn. electric, gas fireplace, us , tenants, and arson all ruled out. Insurance is going to cover us but tenant didn't take insurance. No i was hurt as no 1 was dwelling, just after the burn down we had 2 intermission in's too. The stink from the fire is still evident from the street and the restoration company says that all drywall in the entire business firm volition be removed in social club to seal the joists, studs, etc. that were not burnt, only will smell of smoke.
went here and tried posting motion picture's http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...-pictures.html and followed instuctions merely still tin can't see moving picture'due south
a further note to hi's have your customers read fine print on insurance policy. they will be surpized to find out bylaw coverage ways any new bylaws concerning upgrades required past new bylaws ie for basement suites etc are not covered past insurance unless you have it in there. most bones coverages do not. we had 2 mil coverage and 453k of which is house, only however not covering upgrades for electrical and building code requirements in club to have basement suite.
Last edited by Neb Hetner; 12-14-2012 at 06:02 PM.
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ok this is main flooring of my business firm.
thanks again Jim L. for the help
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In our surface area City Building inspectors crave all black smoke damage be replaced!!
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Bill,
1 of things I learned was that there is "replacement insurance" and "replacement to code". My agent suggested I take the latter considering I was purchasing a dwelling congenital in 1955 and there had been quite a few code changes since then. Information technology made perfect sense. 4 years into our ownership we had a supply hose on the dishwasher break when nosotros were gone for the mean solar day. Claims adjuster drops the brawl and never notifies the restoration company. Nosotros mop things up and 2 weeks later the soggy dog/ mold smell is getting bad. Call agent and he gets restoration company onsite who tells united states we have mold growing in the walls and under cabinets. Contractors tells us its a tearout to the studs. Electrical service can't handle new circuits so not just do we need a new panel but they have to move the service to the side of the dwelling. Quote is $4,500 - all covered under replacement to code, Plumbing doesn't meet code and needs new vent through roof line -$800 all covered nether replacement to lawmaking. All toll there was probably $seven,000 that were code upgrades that were picked up that nosotros had to pay for if we had plain old replacement insurance.
//Rick
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Since the structural component is now on the P.E., the main remaining issue is odors. If this persist, they tin get it media blasted with dry ice. This can strip abroad the char exposing the wood. The debris volition demand to be collected and removed but it works. The operator would demand to clothing SCBA since the cranium would fill with CO2 which displaces oxygen.
Proceed the burn in the fireplace.
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